Saturday, March 19, 2005

Is there a limit to this?

Yesterday while I was waiting for a class to begin and was looking around,I saw a notebook and picked it up with the intention of returning it to its owner. While leafing through the book, I came across a piece of paper that had one one side notes taken during some class while the other side was titled P*** Antakshari. Reading on, I found paras of four to five hindi songs written down in different handwritings. Though most of the words were the same, certain words were changed, like in the song pardesi,
pardesi, the word chod was underlined. This one isn't the worst one, there was one that I cannot reproduce here.

Just a few days before that, during a class in our college's seminar hall,I lifted my notebook from the table to find the word 'sex' very carefully scribbled there with a blue ballpoint. It hadn't only been scribbled, it had been painstakingly boldened.

Heights of sexual frustration? I guess this only proves the point of a male friend who said 'One in six seconds, a guy is thinking about sex'. I had been putting off writing about this for quite a while, the incidents mentioned above spurred me on.

In the past few weeks, I have twice had arguments with (female) friends X and Y who until late (one has changed her mind) have always claimed 'All men are dogs/bastards/'.

Their reason? Why are women judged on the basis of their figures? Why do people we know instantly judge a girl based on the size of her bust, butts etc.? Why do so many men persist in their belief that women are 'dumb bitches'? This comment because she and a group of friends had gone to a pub where, while they were
entering, a couple of 'well-dressed educated' young guys loudly said 'Girls are such bitches'.

I argued that ALL men were not bastards/dogs/etc. because it seemed naive to me and you can't generalize and I think that I DO know a few members of the 'darker?' sex who do not belong to that category. Yet as I see the number of incidents like the one above increasing, I begin wondering if those few people are 'two-faced' as X & Y seem to claim.

Two-faced because they talk decently to girls when they're talking to them and the moment their back is turned, back to the old situation, girls are brainless bimbos created for their visual satisfaction.

I tried supporting my argument by saying that guys think differently from girls and looks matter more to guys than they matter to girls (most of them at least). Plus, I think guys when they're older have much more sense and better judgement when it comes to girls. To which Y said, that they wouldn't change and that even after marriage they'd talk about their wives
the same way as they'd discuss the 'chicks on the street'. Hm.

Another point that occurred to me was that the media bombards visuals of half-naked women (a phrase I am using at the risk of sounding like a prude, which on second thoughts I may be) at these people left, right and center. Which Which
warm-blooded male (hehe) would not be prone to these, considering that its going beyond all limits? Very few people have the time to think about these issues, much lesser time to take a stand on them. It is considered so normal that it would never occur to them that it could be a matter of principle.

And of course, when they get to see live or even near examples of what they see on endless remixes, magazine covers, newspapers etc., wouldn't they tend to relate? In this case, I think women should dress more responsibly or be ready to bear the comments. There's only so much you can do about other people's mentalities.

Another point which came to mind, was that in my opinion, people who stay in residential colleges etc. can exercise their freedom to a much greater extent than other people who went home to their family after school/college. Here where you have a fast internet connection and the privacy of your room, what more would you need? Nobody to stop you from doing what you want, except the weight of your own conscience. Who even recognizes that word these days?

My sister studies in one of the top medical colleges of the state where residence is an option. Many, yet definitely not all, are drunk all day.She heard that they often visit red-light areas. The guys in my college are still far from that I think, what I really respect them for is that they've never passed (audible) comments when girls are going by and are mostly decent. Yet, indirect, anonymous comments are increasing and I guess I won't be surprised if they turn out the same way though it will take time.

As for the media part,sure, sex sells. But do you have to bring something (which in my (laughable?) opinion would be the best way to cement an honest, committed relationship) that sublime to the streets just to generate money? I wonder if they know how much they're hurting women (who sometimes indirectly hurt innocent men because of this). Wouldn't such obviously addictive visuals make any person's mind revolve only around sex? Then doesn't it automatically follow that women will be gawked at, felt up at
the provocation that they're women? Can you even balance that terrible sense of violation and all that money?

To those who've reached this point (wow!), I'm sorry about the lecturing and the holier-than-thou tone. But it really hurts. Black and white will never be enough to explain.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

'One in six seconds, a guy is thinking about sex' - where do we find such stats?

If your X and Y say [or used to] that 'All men are dogs/bastards/', why cant men say that women are 'dumb bitches'.. men just added a word dumb, isnt it?

'Why are women judged on the basis of their figures?' - Don't girls turn face when a sexy [handsome?] man passes by? Seriously speaking, its not just men, even

women go after guys' looks, they actually do. You'll rarely find a girl saying that she's satisfied with not so good looking husband. We just speak. We dont realize that

outer looks do matter and why shouldnt they afterall? One who keeps him/herself fit and good-looking is really praise worthy.. Afterall, he/she's taking care of god's

gift [this body] to him/her.

"'well-dressed educated' young guys loudly said 'Girls are such bitches'." - The only difference might be that guys say things in open, girls are generally quiet and

comment within small groups [e.g. coolcat, X and Y]. Are they afraid of someone or what?

You think that you DO know a few members of the 'darker?' sex who do not belong to that category. I am sure that you know many of them. Just try recalling.

You wonder that guys are 'two-faced'. Excuse me lady, who the hell in this world isnt two-faced. And acting that way isnt always to keep ourselves on a safer side.

Sometimes, people just dont want to look at the original [real?] you. You need to act artificially. You act that way to make yourself look more cool and stylish than you

actually are and it is because people want you to look that way. And it isnt bad. It isnt bad because this world's changed into an artificial world. All we need to do is

present ourselves in a better way, better than what we are. I read this somewhere - "Arent we all whores basically !! Just selling our services, trying to make as

much as we can with the capabilities we are good at, making comprises for between what we give and what we get." Anyways, I'm going off the track.

"Guys talk decently to girls when they're talking to them and the moment their back is turned, back to the old situation." - Yes, some of them do but not all. Don't you

feel that not all people of a particular category are bad? And those who act that way actually have a reason. They have a reason of girls making them feel that way.

They feel that all women are materialistic. Girls talk, flirt, date, tease, dont talk and whatever else they do, do it just because they have a motive. The motive could

be a short term one (like that of having a driver or that of getting a HOT babe stamp or simply for keeping the CRUSH Hit counter ticking) or a long term one (like that

of having an ATM from which you only withdraw) and depending on that the behaviour and duration of the behaviour lasts. Just try to recall if you've tried to use some

guys. Girls usually try to get their work done using the status of the 'weaker sex' title. At one time, people say that girls should be given rights equivalent to men and

at other times we see reservation for women and other such rules. Are women trying to be equal to men or are they trying to get higher?

'Y' said that men wouldn't change and that even after marriage they'd talk about their wives the same way as they'd discuss the 'chicks on the street'. Is this 'Y'

married? Where does she get so many stats from? Had this been the case [what she said], there would have been more divorce and suicide cases. Just think before

you speak and then give arguments. Don't just comment for the heck of commenting.

'I think women should dress more responsibly or be ready to bear the comments. There's only so much you can do about other people's mentalities.' Good to see this

wonderful thought. Keep it up :D

"The guys in my college are still far from that I think, what I really respect them for is that they've never passed (audible) comments when girls are going by and are

mostly decent." - Great.
"Yet, indirect, anonymous comments are increasing and I guess I won't be surprised if they turn out the same way though it will take time." - Shut up. Dont make

such stupid assumptions.

"I wonder if they know how much they're hurting women (who sometimes indirectly hurt innocent men because of this). " .. Dont we use both hands to clap? It isnt

just one way lady. Either women make news for men to sell or women make men create news to sell.

Its not just women who get hurt. Even men do get hurt. They get hurt by the way that most of the women try to use them. [Am I generalizing something??]

Anyways, it was good to see your post. Rather, I would say that it was good to see a real post. Most people have stopped posting their actual feelings and thoughts.

People have started writing things for others and it seriously gets boring with time. its interesting only if you write it for yourself. Am I again generalizing things? No,

probably I wrote what I feel.

And sorry for lecturing [obviously, if you've read upto this point] :) All the best for your life. Keep making such posts. Atleast guys get to know what girls actually feel.

May be some of them do change. High hopes :)

ironhide said...

Boo hoo the anonymous coward wrote all that I wanted to write and a lot more!!
He must be really quick though...rss feeds dont take too long in reaching my inbox and already a comment worthy(if not better than the actual post)..

the second time in a day that I(not directly) have been called a dog...so getting kind of used to it...

"Its not just women who get hurt. Even men do get hurt. They get hurt by the way that most of the women try to use them."-->perfectly put...mr.anonymous

""'well-dressed educated' young guys loudly said 'Girls are such bitches'." - The only difference might be that guys say things in open, girls are generally quiet"-->clap clap clap..thunderous applause

you have made what we like to call in our batch "jhadoo marne wala" statements..sweeping statements..excessive generalisation based on minimal datasets...

yes IIIT is losing its virginity...but dont think we will get down to catcalling any time soon...

Like our earlier FM's,I think a rollback is in order..we the "good guys association" demand one!

shodZ said...

GoD. that was something. k, where do we start

guys use extensive amounts of abusive language among themselves(i have no idea about gals). so big deal. they dint direkt it to yA.
'One in six seconds, a guy is thinking about sex'-does anyone wanna quote Freud here??? n by the way in all prob whle telling ya this, ur male friend, by his own admission was thinking about sex.
Why are women judged on the basis of their figures?- as if gals ahve the power to shutDown their opinion formation machines. visual perception leads to the first set of opinions about anyone in ur visual range. duhhhh, aint that a scientifikt fakt. the diff is only with some ppl believng in 'first impression is the last impression' and others waiting for more inputs.
'media bombards visuals of half-naked women'- are ya telling me that ya dont get to see visuals of half-naked men. roflol.
'Black and white will never be enough to explain'- this is prob the only thing right about the post.

The Reporter said...

Oops. I thought you pasted the same comment here so that haloscan wouldn't eat it up as it is wont to. Here's the rest of the reply.

- Keep it up :D
Thank you :)

-Shut up. Dont make such stupid assumptions.
But don't you think we're headed in that direction? Ask anybody from my class, the anonymous comments *have* increased.

- Either women make news for men to sell or women make men create news to sell.
Disagree. MOST women, at least in blue movies are exploited. How many women are there in the media industry anyway? Wouldn't Page 3 prove my point? I know you've seen it :).

-[Am I generalizing something??]
I would definitely say you are :).

Thank you for the rest and the same to you :).

The Reporter said...

Ah, Jayaram, the 'anonymous coward' is from your class wonly.

"he second time in a day that I(not directly) have been called a dog...so getting kind of used to it...", then you should act like a certain member of our class who after having been bored with this statement replied to it saying 'Woof! Woof!' :D

"-->clap clap clap..thunderous applause
I've clarified this point :)

.excessive generalisation based on minimal datasets..
Tsk tsk. Remember I said, NOT ALL? Some of the more universal statements I made, weren't commented on by you people :). I wrote this post wondering why X and Y think so. Maybe the people they met turned out to be this way. Can't say :)

-but dont think we will get down to catcalling any time soon...
Wonderful. That's one thing I love about this place :).

-Like our earlier FM's,I think a rollback is in order..we the "good guys association" demand one!
What did you mean by this? :-/

The Reporter said...

shodz,

-guys use extensive amounts of abusive language among themselves(i have no idea about gals). so big deal. they dint direkt it to yA.

I was talking about the 'heights of sexual frustration' here. Remember the title of the page? Also, I said there was WORSE stuff. I know that is wasn't directed at anybody. I was wondering why people choose to spend time this way.

-does anyone wanna quote Freud here??? n by the way in all prob whle telling ya this, ur male friend, by his own admission was thinking about sex.

I think the very fact that he said that was an admission that it was. I figured it was right because nobody I know bothered to say it was wrong so I took that as a true statement.

- visual perception leads to the first set of opinions about anyone in ur visual range. duhhhh, aint that a scientifikt fakt

Wouldn't you agree that women's looks or shall i put it more explicitly, curves are more easy to judge? I know people who look at girls passing by and say nice ass. I was objecting to the objectification. Very very few women would do that, and even if they did, what would be an example of their comment?

-are ya telling me that ya dont get to see visuals of half-naked men. roflol.
Do compare it to the number of women that you get to see. How many remix videos have you seen that have half naked men? Why, some item numbers hardly have ANY men in them!
Plus, do remember that women DONT give as much importance to looks as men do. Its the way both sexes are, no dispute about that.

You're a minority, quite a few people find more than one thing right about this post :). And btw, that one thing?
Its a zillion times worse than any of the allegations I made above. Yet its causes are listed there too.

Anonymous said...

"Ah, Jayaram, the 'anonymous coward' is from your class wonly." - i am not from his batch.. I am from your batch. And its better that you dont know who I am. I used the facility of being anonymous since you provided one.. Otherwise, I would have written my name. Its not being 'coward'.. Its only that somethings are far away from our understanding and I know that you wont understand.

More comments to come.. Have to rush for something.. see you later :)

melon collie said...

Looking at the considerable amount of vitriol that has been splattered all over this post, i feel compelled to add an opinion of my own.

Do guys think about sex one in six seconds? Sure they do.

I wonder how often girls think about it. My guess is , taking into account that i seem to share your penchant for the "sweeping generalization", maybe one in ten.

The other four seconds, girls are figuring out what to wear. :)
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Do guys ever grow up? No.
Once a dickhead, always a dickhead.
Pardon the pun. It was unintentional, i swear.

Are men two-faced? Sure.
Though i have to stress that there is a minority that doesn't refer to women as 'dumb bitches' or 'chicks on the street' as much as they would like to do so.

This residential-college business intrigues me though. I might sound a bit tipsy, but i can assure you that many of my wingmates have never tasted a drink stronger than milk or passed an unkind comment about a woman. And given the environment of the place i live in, that is something.

Is the media to blame ?
Not really.
Its just that we live in a society which is only just stepping out of the closet when it comes to such matters, and the media is merely reflective of the voyeuristic mindset that accompanies this transition.

At heart, we are all perverts.






Its a pity that i lack Mr Anon's doggedness,

Anonymous said...

Back again..

"The anonymous comments *have* increased." -- If you dont want ppl to be anonymous, why keep the option?? And if you've already kept it, don't comment that way. anonymous comments have increased because probably they feel that they can comment freely that way. We dont need to worry about anyone if we are anonymous. I am NOT coward. Only that your impression about me might change your reaction towards the comment. Still if you feel that its not fair on my part, tell me. I'll write the next comment along with my name.


"How many women are there in the media industry anyway? Wouldn't Page 3 prove my point? I know you've seen it :)" -- I have seen it. btw, how do u know ?? :) Movies arent that real and you know that very well. I do rmr when guys wanted to exploit women in that movie but it was only with the consent of the female. Movie had ppl like that police inspector too.


"Considering you have a girlfriend and you were apparently quite infuriated by the post, I'm really happy for her" -- I wasnt at all infuriated, I was happy that you made that post. THough some things did hurt me. Guys arent that bad. And btw, I dont plan to make a girl friend in the recent future (You are wrong when you consider me to have one). I think I've explained enough abt girls in my previous post to clarify the previous statement. If not generalization, atleast that is what I feel.


"How many girls are sent photos of guys to choose to get married to?" -- I feel that they dont have that many 'powers' for now. May be, sometime later, guys get into a similar state. Women are advancing in every damn field [including 'indecency']


"Men are not as easy to judge on the basis of looks as women are." -- ha ha.. Is it that girls arent intelligent enough to judge them?? Ok!! I am not here to have a 'battle of sexes'. But, srsly sepeaking, guys are more straight-forward and are easier to understand. Girls have always been known to hide lots of secrets [may be, its praise worthy].


"What I meant here was, that this was done with an intention to hurt. THey didn't even know this group of girls. It was said loudly on purpose." -- Lastly, I dont know what exactly was the situation. So, no point commenting on that. But those girls heard that comment near the pub entrance right? Just tell me one thing - "ARE INDIAN GIRLS EXPECTED TO GO TO PUBS??" May be thats being a chauvenist pig, but that is how our culture is. I dont generally believe girls, especially those who go over to pubs. Why dont you ask miss 'Y' to comment on this?

Anyways, what a discussion? Didnt expect to have that many number of comments in just one night. :) Good going..

shodZ said...

I was wondering why people choose to spend time this way-- why kant ya take the words as only words. the abusive lang is not meant to abuse. its just part of the everyDay lingo. dont tell me ya read into everything that everyone says
I think the very fact that he said that was an admission that it was. I figured it was right because nobody I know bothered to say it was wrong so I took that as a true statement-- im nnot disputing on the truth of the statement. my point was, that since ya agree that he was thinkin about sex at that time, does that make him a pervert?? did any of ur opinions about him change??
Wouldn't you agree that women's looks or shall i put it more explicitly, curves are more easy to judge--so what the hell kan i do. ur goin to kill GoD for this now??
Why, some item numbers hardly have ANY men in them!-- why, our own heroes are topless all the time. on the other hand i dont getto see any topless women!!! at most they appearance by way of the klothes is seducing
Plus, do remember that women DONT give as much importance to looks as men do. Its the way both sexes are, no dispute about that-- i need proof for this. in no way would i agree that women give lesser importance than men. atmost it is a matter of equality. at the end; kouples are formed only when both the guy n gal are on the same level.
You're a minority-- atleast the komments dont tell me that.

Playboi said...

hmm that was a nice blog.
i dont have any problem with whatever is written here .. but the only 1 thing that i think is wrng is:

1. guys are two-faced.- well i can bet on this .. if we are two faced then u (girls) are two billion faced. thats why its said .. "u can never understand a women, u have two faces, they have 2 million" (he hehe i made half of it :p)

2.I agree with anomynous .. if we are reffered to as dogs in private convs. then i dont see why we reffering to u (girls) as bitches that bad ?? the only thing is we say that out loud .. because we are the same .. when in front of a girl or on her back.

3. from my past exp. i found that girls hate being treated as girls. They want to be equal. ok we will treat u equal. but u seem to be complaining abt the same. I am sure, when a guys sees a guy, he thinks ... nah he is too short what a loser. or .. look at his height, i bet he plays basketball. or damm he goes to gym. or dude ... u are a guy .. start eating something .. u dont have to contest in a slim contest. or that rich bastard no wonder he has s girl like that.
so my pt. is .. looks gives everyone a first impression abt everyone.

4. Looks matter to gys more then they matter to girls... well thats how we are made. its the way nature wants us to be. why are flowers so beautiful ?? same reason. and i think in some species (if i am not wrong) like frogs, male frog trys to show off his air-bag and impressed by that a female frog comes to mate. I think u can not blame us for what nature has made us like.

5. abt the word "sex" written on the table, if a perosn is writting such a thing that doesnt mean that he was thinking abt sex at that time. normally the case is . a guy is talking to someone, geting bored, sees a pen, continues talking, plays with the pen, then starts scribbling something on the table, can be anything any word, any name.

Anonymous said...

-"ARE INDIAN GIRLS EXPECTED TO GO TO PUBS??"
Please stop telling us what to do and what not to do! I think we are intelligent enough to chose what is best for us.I always felt that we Indians are a little hypocritical in a way(no no I am a patriot ,this is just an opinion). We always define boundaries just to keep ourselves happy.How many people are free enough to do what they want to? Do you think all those girls who don't go to pubs are great?If this is the criteria on which you judge people I feel really sorry for you people.

-"I dont generally believe girls, especially those who go over to pubs"
How does going to someplace or talking to someone effect ones character? Grow up guys.Dont be so judgemental!

-"I agree with anomynous .. if we are reffered to as dogs in private convs. then i dont see why we reffering to u (girls) as bitches that bad ?? the only thing is we say that out loud .. because we are the same .. when in front of a girl or on her back."

Your intention is to hurt us where as ours is mere helplessness and hatred.

"Looks matter to gys more then they matter to girls... well thats how we are made. its the way nature wants us to be"
Yeah maybe.But just because nature wants you guys to be that way doesnt hurt less. There are people believe me who look at the bust while talking instead of the face.And these people are not some cheap people.They are my very own classmates , some of them even my friends! Yeah, so now tell do I have a reason enough to hate men and call them dogs?
And I have heard conversation of guys when they discuss how good a girl is depending on how big her bust is. I felt disgusted.It feels creepy to imagine that a buch of guys are discussing your body in this way :(.

Anyway i used to feel sick everytime something of this sort happened. But then I have made my peace with it by thinking that all men are dog :D,and that we cant really help them.This works magic! Helps one not to care about what they do or think anymore.

There are some dog characters in all men. That is a must. But putting that thing aside you guys are not that bad, like I say, everyone has atleast one thing worth admiring. But then cant you people try not to be dogs? :D.Or am I expecting too much ? :D

Anyway a very cool post coolcat.My advice is dont really think about these things.It will just make you hate the people around you.Will not take you anywhere.Just think that these are the hard realities and we cant really do anything to change them :). Have a nice time and all the best for your future.

Anonymous said...

I write myself as 'anonymous 1' :) otherwise, it might create confusion :D

"Please stop telling us what to do and what not to do!"
I am not telling you what to do lady. And you getting so furious about it clearly indicates that somewhere within you know that it is wrong. It is wrong, not because you arent supposed to drink but because majority of you girls dont have gutts to tell that to your parents. Arent we still dependent on them?? Isnt this wasting their money?? Guys, someday or the other, will tell their guardians abt it. Whether you accept it or not, it doesnt give a good impression if girls drink in this society. Or else why dont you drink with your parents someday? Let them also know abt it. When they sent you in this institute, they must have had some level of confidense in you which I feel is being shattered. Anyways, go ahead with whatever you feel is the best. All Indians are independent and have the right to do what they feel like. Sorry if I did sound harsh but that is what I felt.

"How many people are free enough to do what they want to? "
Atleast all we IIITians are. Let not discuss about others because then we'll have to pic up many new issues too.

"Do you think all those girls who don't go to pubs are great?"
No, I dont. But all girls who do go arent at all great. They may be great lookwise [I again picked up this first]. They may have lots of friends. But that doesnt prove them to be right or great. There may be many reasons for one to drink. But I guess, there are other options too. If you want to enjoy, arent there other ways? If you go to get rid off your tensions and frustrations, are all the other non-drinkers tense and frustrated?

"How does going to someplace or talking to someone effect ones character?"
Actions depict your thoughts. See, what you think is what you comprehend and what you comprehend results into your actions. I dont want to get into this philo but srsly speaking, pub going girls dont give a good impression at the first chance. Try to change and I am very sure that you'll gain 'more' respect. People will look at you with much more decency.

This is a never-ending discussion. If you really want to get into it, no objections at all. Will keep on replying till you want me to.

Anyways, all the best to both - coolcat and miss anonymous 2.

ironhide said...

ahem...a suggestion

Instead of the comment board enable a forum.That way we will be able to decide this issue properly

I was born in the year of the Dog..so my response will be in favor of x/y ;))...but seriously...x/y have either met the wrong people ALL the time...or they are seeing everyone through colored glasses.

The Reporter said...

-The other four seconds, girls are figuring out what to wear. :)

Nice one there :), melon collie. Of course, not true :)Why would we change our clothes that often? :D

-And given the environment of the place i live in, that is something.
Surprising. Going by the environment of your blog, aren't you in a totally different country? Or am I wrong about that?

-ts just that we live in a society which is only just stepping out of the closet when it comes to such matters, and the media is merely reflective of the voyeuristic mindset that accompanies this transition.At heart, we are all perverts.

How very disapponting. No, we're not all perverts. And about hte closet thing, shouldn't we make sure we're not imitating anybody and walk out of it naked?

The Reporter said...

- If you dont want ppl to be anonymous, why keep the option??

My dear, I was talking about anonymous comments about girls. And don't worry, I know who you are. I only mistook you for someone else.

-. Is it that girls arent intelligent enough to judge them??
I dont think you got my point. Its a little more explicit i guess.

I think miss anonymous answered the rest of your points..

The Reporter said...

Shodz, you're missing my point again. Leave it be.

Yes, you're right about the guy being a pervert. I guess it didn't matter much to me what he thought, he isn't someone i interact with very much.

-so what the hell kan i do. ur goin to kill GoD for this now??
No, I just asked you if you cared to agree about that point. How far you take those judgments is what I was worried about.

-in no way would i agree that women give lesser importance than men. atmost it is a matter of equality. at the end; kouples are formed only when both the guy n gal are on the same level.
Well, to each his own, I was giving you a commonly held opinion by girls, maybe you'd know better? :)
Levels are not always defined by looks. This is all I have to say.

Playboi,
1. I think we already discussed tis :)
2. Agreed, but its not justified either way
3. But they shouldn't be the only impression
4. Agreed. Didn't get your point about the flowers though :P
5. absalootly crappy point! :P

manuscrypts said...

after all the posts have been written and all the comment wars have been fought, i'll still be corny and say 'make love, not war' :)

Anonymous said...

Manu, thank you for being you! :)